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        Goo Goo Dolls >> Goo Goo Dolls >> John and his guitar (or lack thereof)
        
(Message started by: the orange o on Feb 10th, 2007, 10:45pm)
Title: John and his guitar (or lack thereof)
Post by the orange o on Feb 10th, 2007, 10:45pm
We all know John is playing less and less guitar these days - unfortunately...

Now here's a discussion I have with my husband about the GOOs. He thinks it's so strange that the band doesn't have a permanent lead guitar player. He likes some GOO songs, but isn't what you'd call a real fan. So this fact always gives him ammo in our conversations about how good - or not - the GOOs are.

Well now with John playing less and less guitar, is there going to be a point where the GOOs don't have a permanent guitar player? I mean what's a band w/o a guitarist? It's just weird to have these "session" guys join the tour and play so much of the music w/o really being part of the band. Then the next tour they're gone and new guys come in. I'm not happy...LOL..plus the fact that I just can't warm up to Brad doesn't help.

Brad is just the LEAST charismatic musician I've ever seen.  I'm not taking anything away from his guitar skills, I just think the guy is the stiffest, most boring guitarist I've ever seen.

OK, enough babbling for now.  
Title: Re: John and his guitar (or lack thereof)
Post by DWG on Feb 10th, 2007, 11:30pm
http://www.wikimusicguide.com/images/8/89/Goo-goo-dolls-in-concert.jpg

...for old-times' sake.

I couldn't even find a picture of him playing the "Half-caster". Remember that?
Title: Re: John and his guitar (or lack thereof)
Post by the redo on Feb 10th, 2007, 11:41pm
Believe me, I agree with most of what you are saying.  I don't think they'll ever get to the point where they won't have an actual guitar player because to me it seems like John is capable of playing, he just doesn't.  I assume he played most of the guitar parts while recording the current album so no one can technically say he's not really a guitarist.

I wish he was address this new lack of guitar playing.  Whether he feels he can't play, if he has developed some sort of tendonitis, etc, or even if his reason is flat out "I don't want to play guitar", I wish he would say something about it.  Because it is starting to look ridiculous having a new guitar hanging around his neck for every song when he doesn't even use it.  And then the flailing of the arms... don't even get me started...

I'm not much of a Brad fan either.  I think he can play, but you're right, I hardly notice him and he doesn't really interest me.  I loved Nathan and his "I'm so frigging cool" thing and Greg was just adorable and funny and adorable (did I mention adorable?), but Brad?  Eh.  We had Nathan for like 3 years and Greg for 3-4, so maybe I will warm up to Brad with time.  I do have to give him credit though.  John plays less guitar every tour and that means Brad is working harder than Nathan or Greg.  :D
Title: Re: John and his guitar (or lack thereof)
Post by the redo on Feb 10th, 2007, 11:43pm

on 02/10/07 at 23:30:14, DWG wrote:
http://www.wikimusicguide.com/images/8/89/Goo-goo-dolls-in-concert.jpg

...for old-times' sake.

I couldn't even find a picture of him playing the "Half-caster". Remember that?


OMG, it's a Prince style phallic guitar picture.  Alert the FCC!!!  Someone!  Think of the children!!
Title: Re: John and his guitar (or lack thereof)
Post by DWG on Feb 10th, 2007, 11:49pm

on 02/10/07 at 23:43:29, the redo wrote:
Think of the children!!



:thinkin:  Yes! That's it!

John. Play the guitar. For the children.
Title: Re: John and his guitar (or lack thereof)
Post by the redo on Feb 10th, 2007, 11:55pm
Well... I'm officially throwing in the towel on the Goos if the next appearance is John playing acoustic songs on whatever kids' show is "hip" these days.
Title: Re: John and his guitar (or lack thereof)
Post by DWG on Feb 10th, 2007, 11:57pm
I draw the line at John doing JBJ "jazz hands" gestures.
Title: Re: John and his guitar (or lack thereof)
Post by the redo on Feb 11th, 2007, 12:02am
John talks with jazz hands sometimes.  I want to write him a letter asking him to sit on his hands in interviews (okay, and to throw out the gum).
Title: Re: John and his guitar (or lack thereof)
Post by carlyn on Feb 11th, 2007, 12:43pm
I remember reading an interview with Robby where he said john just likes to free up from playing the guitar during shows nowadays, so he can concentrate on singing.  And also John thinks his guitar playing makes them sound like a bar band.  I think that if John is going to bring out a new guitar for every song, he better actually play them, or else it just looks like he's trying to show off his guitars instead of his guitar skills.  We all know that John is a great guitar player, but I don't think he realizes that and that's why he just lets the hired guys play, because he thinks they sound better without him on guitar.
Title: Re: John and his guitar (or lack thereof)
Post by DWG on Feb 11th, 2007, 1:21pm
Wow, if that's true, then I think John should take a look back and realize that all that time that he was playing the guitar, particularly the electric guitar, actually playing solos...that the fans loved his guitar-playing abilities. I think he's a fine guitarist. He should know that if he wasn't a good guitarist after 20 years of this band being together, people would have told him so a long, long time ago.

When the band was just a threesome, maybe they sounded like a bar band, but you know what? The energy and the vibe that they were giving off was what got the audience excited about their music. Look what happened recently when the band and their guests did that one-off of AC/DC's "You Shook Me". Yeah it was probably raw, and sounded like a bar band. But from what I read on several forums that one song was the highlight of this LLI tour so far. There was John, actually playing an electric guitar for a change, just everyone cutting loose, and it was fantastic.

I can see the point of adding additional backup musicians as the songs became more complex over time with multiple guitar parts, additional keyboards, etcetera, but to throw away another one of the original essential elements of the band, that being John's guitar-playing...it's a foolish move.

If you pull a tree too far from its roots...
it'll slowly wither and die.
Title: Re: John and his guitar (or lack thereof)
Post by Gutterrose on Feb 11th, 2007, 2:18pm
I haven't been on this board in forever but interesting topic. I feel many songs on this cd are not as "real" . The songs seem more paint by numbers than creative art. The lyrics on a couple of songs are good but when the chorus kicks in it's hard to swallow. These are the songs that are penned by Rzeznik and Ballard. I think I know where the producer assistance came in. It all seems a little formulated. Which brings me to the topic at hand. I've been to several shows on this tour as I still love to see this band live and only part of the show has fallen into the formula.
I personally do see some guitarless Bon Joviesque moves. I actually laughted at a move I saw. It's just not the John we are used to seeing. But the new fans are eating it up, along with the formulated parts of the new songs that irritate me. But I won't throw in the towel either until he goes full jazz hands and starts shaking his ass. But you know they've lost fans before maybe it doesn't matter much to them anymore. Maybe $ is better than artistic expression? But I know this would never be admitted. People love Bon Jovi but I just don't see the "art".
The best part of the show for me is when John actually plays his guitar! Keep Naked on the setlist! Maybe I am just a bar band person.
And I love the "If you pull a tree too far from it's roots...", let's hope that doesn't happen!
Title: Re: John and his guitar (or lack thereof)
Post by DWG on Feb 11th, 2007, 3:08pm
I agree with you totally, Gutterrose.
The "Let Love In" cd has still failed to fuel any interest in me to this day. I have to admit, I still have not purchased it, in any of its various forms (cd, dvd, extra-special QVC edition...you name it), and I doubt I ever will. I know it would just sit on the shelf, not a cd I would grab for a listen. I tried listening to the songs, and they just fell flat for me. I'm still a fan of the band, but I gravitate to the material from the Hold Me Up through Gutterflower eras.
I'm unable to grasp why the sudden change in style from what we knew as the Goo Goo Dolls to what was presented on the most recent cd. I still attend their shows, but no longer go nuts trying to get the best seats/position on the floor, whatever. I don't totally believe the changes are a result of the guys getting older; that is not an overnight phenomenon. I agree with you that a lot of the change was probably the input of Ballard. There's something less exciting about the new material. It's supposed to be optomistic and happy, but it makes me depressed. No cutting-edge lyrics,  a lack of change-up between verses and choruses. Instead of an interesting bridge, they offer silence.
I have also chuckled at some "Bonjoviesque moves" I've seen during the shows. Having come from being a big Bon Jovi fan, I can appreciate what you're saying there. However, Bon Jovi also drove me from being an avid fan to a casual one, particularly when they pulled that "This Left Feels Right" thing. Well, it didn't feel right to me. I certainly hope John Rzeznik doesn't resort to JBJ aerobics either, I wouldn't want to be caught laughing at the sight of that.
I guess I've already probably said too much, but it's how I feel.
I'd like to see John continue playing the guitar, hell I've been wishing he would pull out the electric guitar more often. They should mix up that setlist more. Play some of the old stuff. I don't think anyone needs to hear Give A Little Bit again. Surprise us. Expose the new fans to something they haven't heard (ie: something not on LLI, something other than Iris, which may very well be the only Goo songs they know). Change is good to a point, but morphing totally into something other than what brought you long-term success in the first place is unwise.
Title: Re: John and his guitar (or lack thereof)
Post by ChickenCookie on Feb 11th, 2007, 4:34pm
I think the QVC thing has already put the Goos in JBJ cheese-ball territory.  I winced when I heard about their appearance there, and I didn't watch it, either live OR on the net.  I can't say as though I'm sad about that, either.

As for sounding like a garage band ... by all means!  Please do so!  I personally - and I don't think I'm alone here - would much rather hear that scruffy, snotty, punky-yet-optimistic rock of HMU, SSCW or ABNG than the glossy, over-produced, so-slick-you-can-skate-on-it limp pop music of LLI.  Though I did shell out for the CD, I haven't listened to it since I bought it and probably won't.  Like DWG, it doesn't leave me feeling hopeful and positive, but rather depressed and sad.  

Back when Treasure Planet came out and John made a few appearances to promote I'm Still Here, I was struck by how awkward he seemed without the guitar strapped around him, as if his hands had nowhere to go.  Now, he appears much more comfortable with it, and that is too bad.  When I first became a fan of the band, I couldn't believe that such sonically-impressive music was created by just three guys.  I, too, would like to know the real reason John doesn't want to/can't play guitar like he used to.  

I also agree on everyone's assessments of Brad.  He's certainly a fine guitar player, but sometimes I wonder if a cardboard cut-out and a guitar track set on autoplay would achieve the same results.  No personality whatsoever, though perhaps that's exactly Rzeznik wants.  That way he remains the star.
Title: Re: John and his guitar (or lack thereof)
Post by the redo on Feb 11th, 2007, 4:43pm

on 02/11/07 at 14:18:03, Gutterrose wrote:
I haven't been on this board in forever but interesting topic. I feel many songs on this cd are not as "real" . The songs seem more paint by numbers than creative art. The lyrics on a couple of songs are good but when the chorus kicks in it's hard to swallow. These are the songs that are penned by Rzeznik and Ballard. I think I know where the producer assistance came in. It all seems a little formulated. Which brings me to the topic at hand. I've been to several shows on this tour as I still love to see this band live and only part of the show has fallen into the formula.
I personally do see some guitarless Bon Joviesque moves. I actually laughted at a move I saw. It's just not the John we are used to seeing. But the new fans are eating it up, along with the formulated parts of the new songs that irritate me. But I won't throw in the towel either until he goes full jazz hands and starts shaking his ass. But you know they've lost fans before maybe it doesn't matter much to them anymore. Maybe $ is better than artistic expression? But I know this would never be admitted. People love Bon Jovi but I just don't see the "art".
The best part of the show for me is when John actually plays his guitar! Keep Naked on the setlist! Maybe I am just a bar band person.
And I love the "If you pull a tree too far from it's roots...", let's hope that doesn't happen!


I like you.  You should come around more often.

And A+ to everyone getting this thread on topic again.
Title: Re: John and his guitar (or lack thereof)
Post by DWG on Feb 11th, 2007, 4:49pm

on 02/11/07 at 16:43:12, the redo wrote:
I like you.  You should come around more often.

And A+ to everyone getting this thread on topic again.


Agreed.

And, yeah...late last night my brain was too tired to put into words what I needed to say. I had to "sleep on it". Maybe I should've stuck to the "pictorials"!   :-X

Thanks to Denise for sparking the discussion.
Title: Re: John and his guitar (or lack thereof)
Post by the orange o on Feb 11th, 2007, 6:19pm

on 02/10/07 at 23:30:14, DWG wrote:
I couldn't even find a picture of him playing the "Half-caster". Remember that?


You mean this one?

http://home.att.net/~girlrightnexttogoo/cbgb-with-guitar.jpg

PS I love the pic you posted  ;D
Title: Re: John and his guitar (or lack thereof)
Post by the orange o on Feb 11th, 2007, 6:21pm

on 02/10/07 at 23:41:48, the redo wrote:
And then the flailing of the arms... don't even get me started...


How about the dropping to his knees for Become? Where's the little barfing smiley face?

And didn't he used to make fun of JBJ's moves?
Title: Re: John and his guitar (or lack thereof)
Post by the orange o on Feb 11th, 2007, 6:24pm

on 02/11/07 at 16:34:49, ChickenCookie wrote:
I think the QVC thing has already put the Goos in JBJ cheese-ball territory.  I winced when I heard about their appearance there, and I didn't watch it, either live OR on the net.  I can't say as though I'm sad about that, either.

As for sounding like a garage band ... by all means!  Please do so!  I personally - and I don't think I'm alone here - would much rather hear that scruffy, snotty, punky-yet-optimistic rock of HMU, SSCW or ABNG than the glossy, over-produced, so-slick-you-can-skate-on-it limp pop music of LLI.  Though I did shell out for the CD, I haven't listened to it since I bought it and probably won't.  Like DWG, it doesn't leave me feeling hopeful and positive, but rather depressed and sad.  

Back when Treasure Planet came out and John made a few appearances to promote I'm Still Here, I was struck by how awkward he seemed without the guitar strapped around him, as if his hands had nowhere to go.  Now, he appears much more comfortable with it, and that is too bad.  When I first became a fan of the band, I couldn't believe that such sonically-impressive music was created by just three guys.  I, too, would like to know the real reason John doesn't want to/can't play guitar like he used to.  

I also agree on everyone's assessments of Brad.  He's certainly a fine guitar player, but sometimes I wonder if a cardboard cut-out and a guitar track set on autoplay would achieve the same results.  No personality whatsoever, though perhaps that's exactly Rzeznik wants.  That way he remains the star.


Yes, yes, yes and yes!

I think this is a good question for the IM Q&A - that is if they're still doing that. They skipped January. I think I'll submit it and hopefully we don't get the standard "we sound like a garage band" answer (if we even get an answer.)
Title: Re: John and his guitar (or lack thereof)
Post by Gutterrose on Feb 11th, 2007, 6:29pm
Thanks. I just needed to get it off my chest. I left the shows scratching my head wondering what has happened. Then I sort of came to my conclusions. It all makes me sad but it's good to know I'm not alone.
Apparently the lack of guitar and working the audience is getting the desired reaction. At least that is what I've seen. Although the cd sales aren't any better than Gutterflower from what I've heard.
I did buy the cd but I don't even know where it is right now. That never happened with any of my other Goo cds.

I will take something away from Brad's guitar skills. I don't think much of Brad as a guitar player or a presence. Greg Suran is definitely a superior guitar player. I watched, I think it was a CD USA thing or something and Brad ruined Black Balloon. It was bad. I can surely tell the difference when Brad is playing that song and some others. Ok I'll shut up now.
Title: Re: John and his guitar (or lack thereof)
Post by DWG on Feb 11th, 2007, 6:33pm

on 02/11/07 at 18:19:01, the orange o wrote:
You mean this one?

http://home.att.net/~girlrightnexttogoo/cbgb-with-guitar.jpg

PS I love the pic you posted  ;D

Yusssssssssssssss! The Descendents guitar! When I saw him playing that thing all busted up like that, I thought that was pretty cool.

The "flailing of the arms" thing...is that kind of like an Ozzy Osbourne homage? I think Ozzy looks so goofy when he comes onstage doing that "give Grampa a big hug" flailing-of-the-arms gesture.
I am also getting tired of the part where the crowd has to sing the entire chorus for Iris. For a while I thought that was cool, but when it happens over & over, I begin to think, "who's getting paid to sing here...me or the performer?" If it's a balance between him and the audience taking turns, alright. But don't stick the mic out to the crowd more than you use it yourself.

"You sing!"
"No! You sing!"
Title: Re: John and his guitar (or lack thereof)
Post by Shannon on Feb 11th, 2007, 6:40pm
I have NO idea why he's not playing the guitar as much and I miss it terribly. He's said in several interviews that he doesn't feel like a good guitar player. I wonder if it's more of a confidence issue? Or maybe he's trying to hide behind his guitar less and interact with the crowd more? I don't know....I just miss him playing.

As far as John not singing during Iris.... I've often wondered if it's a vocal issue. Singing that song night after night is probably a huge strain on his vocal chords. He may be doing that as a way to preserve his voice and get the crowd into the show since it's typically a crowd favorite. You never know he could be going on advice from his vocal coach. That's definitely a way to cheat and save the voice. I dunno  :dunno:  That's the only reasonable explanation I can think of.
Title: Re: John and his guitar (or lack thereof)
Post by DWG on Feb 11th, 2007, 6:45pm

on 02/11/07 at 18:40:48, Shannon wrote:
As far as John not singing during Iris.... I've often wondered if it's a vocal issue. Singing that song night after night is probably a huge strain on his vocal chords. He may be doing that as a way to preserve his voice and get the crowd into the show since it's typically a crowd favorite. You never know he could be going on advice from his vocal coach. That's definitely a way to cheat and save the voice. I dunno  :dunno:  That's the only reasonable explanation I can think of.


I noticed JBJ started doing the same thing with "Livin' On A Prayer" as he got older. Like he couldn't reach the high notes, so he stuck the mic out to the audience to sing it. Here's a thought: change the key you're singing the song in.
Title: Re: John and his guitar (or lack thereof)
Post by ChickenCookie on Feb 12th, 2007, 9:13am

on 02/11/07 at 18:40:48, Shannon wrote:
As far as John not singing during Iris.... I've often wondered if it's a vocal issue. Singing that song night after night is probably a huge strain on his vocal chords. He may be doing that as a way to preserve his voice and get the crowd into the show since it's typically a crowd favorite. You never know he could be going on advice from his vocal coach. That's definitely a way to cheat and save the voice. I dunno �:dunno: �That's the only reasonable explanation I can think of.

I agree with you on this, Shannon. �I think those high notes in Iris are getting tougher and tougher for him to reach, both as he gets older and as the late nights, incessant touring schedule and cigarette smoke wreak havoc with his voice. �I remember seeing them perform once while John was quite sick, his voice sounded awful, and he actually stopped the music before the big high note in Iris and said he needed the audience to help him sing that part. �Back then it may have been evidence of a temporary problem due to being under the weather, but it seems it's becoming the norm these days. �

Denise, that half-caster picture is awesome! �:D
Title: Re: John and his guitar (or lack thereof)
Post by Heather on Feb 12th, 2007, 6:08pm
Ok, I Haven't been posting on here much but I couldn't pass this one up.
Personally, I am a musician. I play in a ( Don't laugh because its good S^%t) Southern ROck/80s Hair  Band.
So I intend to explore many different kinds of  music and I look for  Certain things  in  a song.
I love LLI. Granted at the fact that  Yes, it's different from any other GOO album but I do love it, It's got some great songs on there such as " Can't let it Go"  and "Feel the Silence". Awesome tunes in my mind.

As  for John's playing. I do totally enjoy  his playing. I would love to  hear more of it, But I am not  going to throw the towel in so to speak if he chooses never to play again. There are some things that I may not like and  that is when you take the bad with the good. Others may not  feel this way and that is really cool, everyone has an opinion and they are very well titled to speak it.
And in no means am I saying  that all musicians  know more than those you  aren't. I am just using the fact that I tend to like different things because I was raised in a house where everyone loved and played different styles of music, so please don't get  me wrong  I am not coming down on anyone. Sometimes  my talent is like a curse.
And who knows, John may feel that way sometimes about his guitar playing.  I have been playing since I was 6 years old.  I am 23 now and sometimes I regret  the talent that God gave me. Maybe John has those moments LOL.
But all in all, I love  the guys and always will.


Heather


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